New Argo Boss Says NFL Coming To T.O....Eventually

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

User avatar
Lions4ever
Hall of Famer
Posts: 3430
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2002 7:25 pm
Location: Vancouver Island

User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

That’s unusual talk from a sport executive who just invested heavily in the CFL’s flagship franchise, but when asked to envision Canada’s pro sports landscape in the future Tannenbaum said his outlook includes the NFL.

“The timing is totally up in the air,” Tanenbaum said. “They see Canada as an obvious choice for an NFL team.”

Tanenbaum made the comments during a sports business panel discussion at Bloomberg Economic Series: Canada, a one-day conference covering the Canadian economy. The panel included former NBA COO Russell Granik, Inner Circle Sports founder Robert Tilliss, and BMO US acquisitions head Lyle Wilpon. Topics included the Leafs’ hiring of head coach Mike Babcock, the rising value of media rights and the effect of the exchange rate on Canadian franchises, but NFL questions nevertheless arose.
I would have to say that the wannabe NFLer, Tanenbaum, disrespects the CFL. Very bad form to discuss his NFL aspirations at the time of purchase of the Argos and the deal with BMO field.

Tanenbaum :thdn:
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
dupsdell1
Champion
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:32 am



Mistake for the Argos Future if he is saying things like that , all he wants to do then is build up the Argos were to prove Toronto can support football and then dump then to get a NFL team He is in a dream world the NFL is not coming to Canada Period Toronto is not a Football town as long as the CFL is healthy and operating.
User avatar
Tighthead
Legend
Posts: 2173
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:24 pm

Is he saying that he is going to bring them to Toronto?

The article only has one quote from him where he describes it as inevitable. I read it as him saying that they need to strengthen the Argos presence and fan base now, with the expectation that the NFL will be there, someday.

Considering he is part of a group plunking down $100 million on the stadium, I don't think we need to get up in arms about him disrespecting the CFL.
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

You'll never guess what was the topic of speculation the last time the Argos were sold to a new owner the year before they changed venues.

[video][/video]
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
User avatar
DanoT
Hall of Famer
Posts: 4309
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:38 pm
Location: Victoria, B.C. in summer, Sun Peaks Resort in winter

dupsdell1 wrote:


Mistake for the Argos Future if he is saying things like that , all he wants to do then is build up the Argos were to prove Toronto can support football and then dump then to get a NFL team He is in a dream world the NFL is not coming to Canada Period Toronto is not a Football town as long as the CFL is healthy and operating.
The NFL does not want to see the CFL fold as the CFL (with all its American employees) is the NFL's hedge or "protection" against any possible anti trust legislation in the US. Some day an NFL team might come to Canada under the condition that they also own the Argos and then sell season ticket packages that include tickets to Argo games, thus guaranteeing the survival of the Argos and the CFL.

Of course current long time Argo ST holders would get first choice of NFL seats so maybe some of todays NFL wannabees in TO will start buying Argo ST. Actually the Bills in TO was such a flop that I think those future potential NFL/Argo combined ST buyers have yet to be born.
User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8175
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG when not at BC Place, Grey Cup or Mazatlan.

I haven't heard the whole story to know the real context. Regardless I don't have a problem with him saying that because it's true. It won't happen in the next decade and may not happen in the next 2 decades or even in my lifetime. However the Toronto market is far too big to be ignored forever and it's only going to get bigger. Eventually somebody will put together the pieces it will take to get an NFL calibre stadium built to attract someone to buy an expansion team or relocate an existing one. Whenever that happens there won't be a damned thing the CFL, the Argos or the Canadian government can do about it. In the meantime there's no sense in getting our shortss tied in a knot over it,
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12581
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

Hambone wrote:I haven't heard the whole story to know the real context. Regardless I don't have a problem with him saying that because it's true. It won't happen in the next decade and may not happen in the next 2 decades or even in my lifetime. However the Toronto market is far too big to be ignored forever and it's only going to get bigger. Eventually somebody will put together the pieces it will take to get an NFL calibre stadium built to attract someone to buy an expansion team or relocate an existing one. Whenever that happens there won't be a damned thing the CFL, the Argos or the Canadian government can do about it. In the meantime there's no sense in getting our shortss tied in a knot over it,
Yes, if someone puts up $1 billion for a 70,000- to 80,000-seat stadium and $1 billion U.S. for a franchise fee (now worth about $1.25 billion Cdn) the NFL might consider Toronto at some point in the next few decades, but there would be a lot of hurdles to clear. It's not happening soon.
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

B.C.FAN wrote:
Hambone wrote:I haven't heard the whole story to know the real context. Regardless I don't have a problem with him saying that because it's true. It won't happen in the next decade and may not happen in the next 2 decades or even in my lifetime. However the Toronto market is far too big to be ignored forever and it's only going to get bigger. Eventually somebody will put together the pieces it will take to get an NFL calibre stadium built to attract someone to buy an expansion team or relocate an existing one. Whenever that happens there won't be a damned thing the CFL, the Argos or the Canadian government can do about it. In the meantime there's no sense in getting our shortss tied in a knot over it,
Yes, if someone puts up $1 billion for a 70,000- to 80,000-seat stadium and $1 billion U.S. for a franchise fee (now worth about $1.25 billion Cdn) the NFL might consider Toronto at some point in the next few decades, but there would be a lot of hurdles to clear. It's not happening soon.
Toronto might keep growing but so will other attractive vacancies on their side of the border. The up-front money required to get it done (about 2B USD at the moment) is only going to grow, too, so it seems less likely with time that there will be someone in the GTA with enough of it, or access to enough of it in the form of loans and what have you, to make it happen. Non-starter at this point.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8175
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG when not at BC Place, Grey Cup or Mazatlan.

sj-roc wrote:
B.C.FAN wrote:
Hambone wrote: Toronto might keep growing but so will other attractive vacancies on their side of the border. The up-front money required to get it done (about 2B USD at the moment) is only going to grow, too, so it seems less likely with time that there will be someone in the GTA with enough of it, or access to enough of it in the form of loans and what have you, to make it happen. Non-starter at this point.
What also happens through time is the economics of the sport evolve as do the economies of the various markets. Some larger markets will continue to grow. Others will stagnate and maybe even slump depending on their economies. Some markets considered medium sized now may become a small market somewhere down the road. Similarly some of today's small narkets may become even smaller compared to their peers. Places like Oakland, Jacksonville, Carolina, San Diego, Tampa Bay. Miami and St.Louis fit the bill of those who might look to relocation if the right opportunity presents itself. Oakland, SD and StL are all known to be closely watching the LA stadium situation. The Packers are an anomole. Had they been privately owned instead of a community owned club I suspect they would've long ago left Green Bay. LA is the 2nd biggest US market. Depending on how one considers Mexico Toronto would follow LA and possibly Mexico City as the largest North American market available to any current NFL owner looking for greener pastures.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

I don't want to see the NFL in Canada. Does that colour my view of the chances of it happening? Probably.

Would it succeed economically in Toronto? Dunno ... The Bills experiment certainly failed.

The ultimate toy for a billionaire seems to be a pro sports team. Guys will step up, and be willing to lose money for that "privilege." And in some cases they can make a bundle of money with their franchise.

Would the Canadian government intervene on behalf of the CFL? There is a pretty good chance of that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Football_Act
Canadian Football Act

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

The Canadian Football Act (1974) was a proposed Act by the Parliament of Canada in April 1974 designed to give a government-protected monopoly over professional football in Canada to the Canadian Football League. Although it was never signed into law, the move by the government eventually compelled the World Football League's Toronto Northmen, a team that was originally set to play in Toronto, to move to Memphis, Tennessee in the United States as the Memphis Southmen.

Today, there is speculation that a similar act will develop if the National Football League tries to expand to Toronto and thus threatens the Canadian league's existence.[1] Yet likely it would still allow for an NFL team to play in Canada in an NFL preseason game and the CFL's off season; thus allowing for a Canadian city to host the Super Bowl in the unlikely event that the NFL ever decided to host their premier event in a non-NFL city.

It is also unlikely than any future act will be passed to ever affect American college football, such as the NCAA and NAIA, who have or have had teams based in Canada and bowl games hosted in Canadian cities, with no opposition, in part because the CFL draws part of its players from American College teams as well.

Contents
[hide] 1 Details
2 See also
3 References
4 External links

Details[edit]
Designated C-22.

Introduced by the Minister of Health, Marc Lalonde.

Claimed it would try and protect the Canadian Football League, would allow the CFL to grow and develop its own distinct character

Of the mayors of the nine CFL cities at the time, only three were against the Canadian Football Act. They were the mayors of Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto, also the biggest cities of Canada then and now, with two of them hosting teams from leagues that played a different code of football. Montreal played host to one of the World League of American Football teams, the Montréal Machine, in the early 1990s after their CFL team folded in the late 1980s. Toronto were hosts to an Arena Football League team for two seasons, the Toronto Phantoms.

After the bill passed second reading in the Canadian House of Commons, it was given to the Standing Committee on Health, Welfare and Social Affairs, where it effectively died after the Northmen moved to Memphis.

Clause 6 in the act stated that no person that owns, operates, or manages a team in a league foreign from the CFL shall play in Canada. Subsection 2 stated that no player or member of the said team shall play in Canada, therefore if the bill passed and became law, it would effectively kill teams like the Northmen.

These facts were gathered from the actual debates held in the House of Commons from April 10 to April 28, 1974.
As a fan of the CFL, I would certainly want my government to act to prevent the NFL getting into Canada. If the CFL was damaged or killed how would Saskatchewan feel about the loss of their franchise? Not just the federal government, but some provincial governments would fight it, with Saskatchewan leading the way, it seems to me. Would Ontario fight it? I doubt it. Alberta? I doubt it. B.C.? Hmmmm ... I doubt it. Go, Saskatchewan. LOL

Shirt not in a knot over this, just the impressions and opinions of a CFL fan ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
JohnHenry
Champion
Posts: 841
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:46 pm
Location: Crescent Beach

Yep, the NFL should stay the heck out of our country. We have Canadian football in Canada, American football in America...seems to work, let's keep it that way! :thup:

With the new CRTC regulations they have effectively banned Canadian TV stations from broadcasting the Super Bowl, on the premise that Canadians shouldn't be denied be ability to watch the American Super Bowl commercials. To facilitate that, simultaneous-substitutions will be banned starting in 2017. Bell/CTV/TSN said they wouldn't even bid on future Super Bowls because nobody would watch (when they can watch the authentic Super Bowl on CBS) This is great news for Canadian sports like the CFL/Grey Cup which can provide an outlet for these advertisers to reach a mass football audience.
User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8175
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG when not at BC Place, Grey Cup or Mazatlan.

WestCoastJoe wrote:As a fan of the CFL, I would certainly want my government to act to prevent the NFL getting into Canada. If the CFL was damaged or killed how would Saskatchewan feel about the loss of their franchise? Not just the federal government, but some provincial governments would fight it, with Saskatchewan leading the way, it seems to me. Would Ontario fight it? I doubt it. Alberta? I doubt it. B.C.? Hmmmm ... I doubt it. Go, Saskatchewan. LOL

Shirt not in a knot over this, just the impressions and opinions of a CFL fan ...
While this concept may not fit under the guise of free trade with NAFTA and the various other global free trade agreements that have been enacted in the past 25 years I don't think we're nearly the protectionists we were back in the 1970s. Again I don't think I'll see it because the stadium will always be the deal-breaker. Until someone can come up with a plan to build an NFL style stadium with minimal taxpayer contribution I don't see it happening. I would be a chicken and egg thing. The NFL won't be coming without firm commitments to a new stadium and nobody is going to so that without a commitment for a tenant. It will have to be a chicken breast omelette for it to happen.

When one looks at Forbes' franchise values and revenues of the various NFL clubs it's easy to see how the numbers may be too big to ignore.

Currently the Dallas Cowboys are valued at $3.2 billion. Owning the stadium plays a big part of that. 10 teams are valued at $1.5b and higher.
At the other end of the scale the St.Louis Rams are valued 32nd at $930 million. Only 7 teams, all small market, are valued under $1b. One would think if any of those bottom 7 wound up in Toronto their value would immediately jump to somewhere around middle of the pack. Currently Miami is ranked #16 at $1.3b.

Revenue-wise the Cowboys again lead the way with $560m in revenues. At the bottom of the scale are the Raiders at $244m which is likely more than the entire CFL combined. The top 10 list as generating $300m+ in revenue while the bottom 10 range from Oakland's $244m to Atlanta's $264m. Predictably the top 10 comprise of mostly the largest US markets and the bottom 10 are mostly the smallest markets.

While the rest of the country might push back it I doubt Toronto or Ontario would. They'd likely roll out the red carpet to welcome a $1.3b business generating around $265m in revenues. An interesting thing is the Saskatchewan factor. Their fan base is so full of themselves they honestly believe the league now rides on their coat tails and that losing a team in Canada's biggest market Toronto would have zero impact on the CFL economy. They believe advertisers would be just as willing to dole out the same sort of money to the CFL without a presence in the GTA as they do with it.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
User avatar
BC 1988
Legend
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:58 pm
Location: BC (since 1988)

Hambone wrote:While this concept may not fit under the guise of free trade with NAFTA and the various other global free trade agreements that have been enacted in the past 25 years I don't think we're nearly the protectionists we were back in the 1970s. Again I don't think I'll see it because the stadium will always be the deal-breaker. Until someone can come up with a plan to build an NFL style stadium with minimal taxpayer contribution I don't see it happening. I would be a chicken and egg thing. The NFL won't be coming without firm commitments to a new stadium and nobody is going to so that without a commitment for a tenant. It will have to be a chicken breast omelette for it to happen.

When one looks at Forbes' franchise values and revenues of the various NFL clubs it's easy to see how the numbers may be too big to ignore.

Currently the Dallas Cowboys are valued at $3.2 billion. Owning the stadium plays a big part of that. 10 teams are valued at $1.5b and higher.
At the other end of the scale the St.Louis Rams are valued 32nd at $930 million. Only 7 teams, all small market, are valued under $1b. One would think if any of those bottom 7 wound up in Toronto their value would immediately jump to somewhere around middle of the pack. Currently Miami is ranked #16 at $1.3b.

Revenue-wise the Cowboys again lead the way with $560m in revenues. At the bottom of the scale are the Raiders at $244m which is likely more than the entire CFL combined. The top 10 list as generating $300m+ in revenue while the bottom 10 range from Oakland's $244m to Atlanta's $264m. Predictably the top 10 comprise of mostly the largest US markets and the bottom 10 are mostly the smallest markets.

While the rest of the country might push back it I doubt Toronto or Ontario would. They'd likely roll out the red carpet to welcome a $1.3b business generating around $265m in revenues. An interesting thing is the Saskatchewan factor. Their fan base is so full of themselves they honestly believe the league now rides on their coat tails and that losing a team in Canada's biggest market Toronto would have zero impact on the CFL economy. They believe advertisers would be just as willing to dole out the same sort of money to the CFL without a presence in the GTA as they do with it.
Agree completely. The NFL-standard stadium won't build itself in TO. In the short -term, the NFL still has more attractive markets to fill in the US.

There is no way the CFL will survive without the GTA market. The league is well aware of that, even if deluded Rider fans think otherwise.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

BC 1988 wrote:
Hambone wrote:While this concept may not fit under the guise of free trade with NAFTA and the various other global free trade agreements that have been enacted in the past 25 years I don't think we're nearly the protectionists we were back in the 1970s. Again I don't think I'll see it because the stadium will always be the deal-breaker. Until someone can come up with a plan to build an NFL style stadium with minimal taxpayer contribution I don't see it happening. I would be a chicken and egg thing. The NFL won't be coming without firm commitments to a new stadium and nobody is going to so that without a commitment for a tenant. It will have to be a chicken breast omelette for it to happen.

When one looks at Forbes' franchise values and revenues of the various NFL clubs it's easy to see how the numbers may be too big to ignore.

Currently the Dallas Cowboys are valued at $3.2 billion. Owning the stadium plays a big part of that. 10 teams are valued at $1.5b and higher.
At the other end of the scale the St.Louis Rams are valued 32nd at $930 million. Only 7 teams, all small market, are valued under $1b. One would think if any of those bottom 7 wound up in Toronto their value would immediately jump to somewhere around middle of the pack. Currently Miami is ranked #16 at $1.3b.

Revenue-wise the Cowboys again lead the way with $560m in revenues. At the bottom of the scale are the Raiders at $244m which is likely more than the entire CFL combined. The top 10 list as generating $300m+ in revenue while the bottom 10 range from Oakland's $244m to Atlanta's $264m. Predictably the top 10 comprise of mostly the largest US markets and the bottom 10 are mostly the smallest markets.

While the rest of the country might push back it I doubt Toronto or Ontario would. They'd likely roll out the red carpet to welcome a $1.3b business generating around $265m in revenues. An interesting thing is the Saskatchewan factor. Their fan base is so full of themselves they honestly believe the league now rides on their coat tails and that losing a team in Canada's biggest market Toronto would have zero impact on the CFL economy. They believe advertisers would be just as willing to dole out the same sort of money to the CFL without a presence in the GTA as they do with it.
Agree completely. The NFL-standard stadium won't build itself in TO. In the short -term, the NFL still has more attractive markets to fill in the US.

There is no way the CFL will survive without the GTA market. The league is well aware of that, even if deluded Rider fans think otherwise.
Yes, Saskatchewan in an interesting case study in the business of football, amongst other things. :wink:

Could the CFL survive without Toronto? Well, it pretty much seems to be doing that right now. Saskatchewan might be right: the league might survive without Toronto. Who knows?

I still maintain that for a variety of reasons the various governments of Canada might intervene in a "protectionist" mode. They were ready to do so back in the 1970s. It could be a good political issue for the right government. Yeay, patriotism.

And I agree that the stadium issue is a humongous factor. Does the NFL need Toronto? No. Not in my opinion. Is the NFL all fired up about expanding outside the USA? Aside from raking in the fan support in the UK, et cetera, and being a global commodity in paraphernalia sales, I doubt it. Is it likely that the NFL will have a franchise in Europe? I doubt it. Mexico? I doubt it. The USA itself is big enough to support 32 teams, a solid workable number.

The NFL is obviously very popular, in Canada, amongst other countries. Many Canadians would support the idea of having an NFL team here. Many Canadians would not be concerned about the health or viability of the CFL. A city such as Toronto, or even Vancouver, might love to have the economic push of a local NFL team.

Two very large obstacles, amongst others, standing in the way of the NFL establishing a team in Canada:

1 the stadium

2 a protectionist government that might take it on as an issue for political gain
.........

And even if the NFL eventually made it into Canada (a long, long wistful way down the road for Tanenbaum, and the like, NFL wannabes), the CFL itself might survive just fine, with or without Toronto.

One more thing: Suppose a city such as Toronto got an NFL franchise, "eventually." They could expect to have about 20 years of mediocrity on the field it would seem. 32 teams. A small number of real contenders. A draft. Salary cap. Competition-wise, stuck in no man's land. That would suit Toronto just fine. LOL

Just IMO, mostly as a fan of the CFL.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Post Reply