Random thoughts - CFL WAKE UP

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korey&dante4ever
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Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:45 pm

A couple of thoughts that have really started to irk me as the season has gone along:

1) CFL defensive backs are allowed to clutch, grab, hold, receivers downfield:

- Next time you're at a Lions home game, just watch how secondaries in the CFL play the receivers.
- Oh so you want to run a 10 yard curl? Well, have fun getting bear hugged.
- You're about to make that cut to spring you loose? Well, a DB's hand is about to grab your shoulder to slow you down.
- Cris Collinsworth of NBC Sunday night football continually harps on the fact that EVERY NFL eligible receiver on EVERY play has a ref assigned to him, to watch for illegal contact/holding on a receiver. I absolutely 100% guarantee you, that is not the case in the CFL. The NFL has figured it out, and now we're seeing QB's throwing for 300+ on a regular basis down there.
-Literally the only time illegal contact is called up here, is when a receiver gets mauled/brought down/tripped and by some minor miracle the ref happens to be looking that way. Disgusting.

This bring me to my next point:

2) SO YOU REALLY WANT TO PROTECT QB'S UP HERE????

- Then my god, allow them to get the ball out of their hands quicker. HOW DO WE DO THIS YOU ASK? Well, simple. Start calling illegal contact on Defensive backs. Get defensive backs hands OFF of receivers. Stop the clutching, grabbing, holding, and receivers will start getting open quicker. The ball will start coming out of QB's hands quicker, and they will take less punishment.
- Calling these idiotic roughing the passer penalties isn't going to solve anything, unless that flag the ref throws in the air, has some magic powder in it that sprinkles down onto the quarterback and heals his broken arm. Protecting the QB's by throwing a flag AFTER THE QB GETS PUNISHED because a CFL defender accidentally didn't hit the strike zone is so irrelevant.

Summary:

The CFL has it completely ass backwards. They are bogging offenses down by allowing DB's to continually slow down receivers downfield by clutching and grabbing. HANDS OFF PLEASE. Because of this, receivers are having trouble getting open, and as a result the football is staying in the QB's hands longer, and they are taking more punishment then ever.
MY God, I don't know if I can continue to watch CFL offenses throw for 140-220 yards a game. It's not natural.

Wake up CFL.
-Believes in building from the trenches outwards. A great O-Line and D-Line guarantees an above average team.
-A coach that has to give a motivational pregame speech is probably a coach that is insecure about his game plan.

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WestCoastJoe
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Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:48 pm

Points well made, kd4e. :thup:

Clutch and grab. Gotta be a nightmare for receivers. Call the dayum stuff.

I agree with the view that each receiver could use a PI official. And I agree that DCs have pushed it to the limit of acceptable contact. Having coached some basketball and football, I know that coaches teach to the tolerance level of the referees. This is a foul. This is probably not. And officials are also different from each other. That is in the planning also.

Too much contact? In my view, yes. I would rather see good offence prevail. Same in hockey. Same in basketball. Same in football.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

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korey&dante4ever
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Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:53 pm

I'd like to clarify that I don't believe it is actually the "refs on the field" that are at fault. They're calling the game as they are being told.
This all starts at the top with Glen Johnson (Director of Officiating) and the CFL competition committee.
-Believes in building from the trenches outwards. A great O-Line and D-Line guarantees an above average team.
-A coach that has to give a motivational pregame speech is probably a coach that is insecure about his game plan.

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LFITQ
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Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:11 pm

korey&dante4ever wrote: - Cris Collinsworth of NBC Sunday night football continually harps on the fact that EVERY NFL eligible receiver on EVERY play has a ref assigned to him, to watch for illegal contact/holding on a receiver. I absolutely 100% guarantee you, that is not the case in the CFL. The NFL has figured it out, and now we're seeing QB's throwing for 300+ on a regular basis down there.
This is easy. The shorter and much narrower field makes it easier to see. But I just recently took my reffing Level 1 certification for American football, and I can tel you they don't and can't do that. It is a fabrication. The only time that it does happen is when there are only 2 receivers releasing. Try doing it with a 6 receiver set as is so often the case in the CFL. I don't think I have ever seen a 6 receiver set in the NFL.

The biggest reason why the NFL is gaining on the passing game is because they are actually using it finally. They are moving towards a more pass oriented offense than they have in years past. The deep ball and the longer routes are now "in style" in the NFL. Much as they were in the CFL in the 80's. Couple that with all of the protection they give a receiver now (look at the "vulnerable receiver" rule), it is harder for a receiver to NOT catch a ball as a DB in the NFL basically has to let him catch it before he can touch him.

And let's not forget about the basic rule differences between the CFL and the NFL on their "bump and run" coverages.
Now that I don't live in Quesnel do I need to change my handle??

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KnowItAll
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Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:10 pm

LFITQ wrote:
korey&dante4ever wrote: - Cris Collinsworth of NBC Sunday night football continually harps on the fact that EVERY NFL eligible receiver on EVERY play has a ref assigned to him, to watch for illegal contact/holding on a receiver. I absolutely 100% guarantee you, that is not the case in the CFL. The NFL has figured it out, and now we're seeing QB's throwing for 300+ on a regular basis down there.
This is easy. The shorter and much narrower field makes it easier to see. But I just recently took my reffing Level 1 certification for American football, and I can tel you they don't and can't do that. It is a fabrication. The only time that it does happen is when there are only 2 receivers releasing. Try doing it with a 6 receiver set as is so often the case in the CFL. I don't think I have ever seen a 6 receiver set in the NFL.

The biggest reason why the NFL is gaining on the passing game is because they are actually using it finally. They are moving towards a more pass oriented offense than they have in years past. The deep ball and the longer routes are now "in style" in the NFL. Much as they were in the CFL in the 80's. Couple that with all of the protection they give a receiver now (look at the "vulnerable receiver" rule), it is harder for a receiver to NOT catch a ball as a DB in the NFL basically has to let him catch it before he can touch him.

And let's not forget about the basic rule differences between the CFL and the NFL on their "bump and run" coverages.
gotta say, I like the NFL way better on this issue
Every day that passes is one you can't get back

ballhawk
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Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:20 pm

korey&dante4ever wrote:A couple of thoughts that have really started to irk me as the season has gone along:

1) CFL defensive backs are allowed to clutch, grab, hold, receivers downfield:

- Next time you're at a Lions home game, just watch how secondaries in the CFL play the receivers.
- Oh so you want to run a 10 yard curl? Well, have fun getting bear hugged.
- You're about to make that cut to spring you loose? Well, a DB's hand is about to grab your shoulder to slow you down.
- Cris Collinsworth of NBC Sunday night football continually harps on the fact that EVERY NFL eligible receiver on EVERY play has a ref assigned to him, to watch for illegal contact/holding on a receiver. I absolutely 100% guarantee you, that is not the case in the CFL. The NFL has figured it out, and now we're seeing QB's throwing for 300+ on a regular basis down there.
-Literally the only time illegal contact is called up here, is when a receiver gets mauled/brought down/tripped and by some minor miracle the ref happens to be looking that way. Disgusting.

This bring me to my next point:

2) SO YOU REALLY WANT TO PROTECT QB'S UP HERE????

- Then my god, allow them to get the ball out of their hands quicker. HOW DO WE DO THIS YOU ASK? Well, simple. Start calling illegal contact on Defensive backs. Get defensive backs hands OFF of receivers. Stop the clutching, grabbing, holding, and receivers will start getting open quicker. The ball will start coming out of QB's hands quicker, and they will take less punishment.
- Calling these idiotic roughing the passer penalties isn't going to solve anything, unless that flag the ref throws in the air, has some magic powder in it that sprinkles down onto the quarterback and heals his broken arm. Protecting the QB's by throwing a flag AFTER THE QB GETS PUNISHED because a CFL defender accidentally didn't hit the strike zone is so irrelevant.

Summary:

The CFL has it completely ass backwards. They are bogging offenses down by allowing DB's to continually slow down receivers downfield by clutching and grabbing. HANDS OFF PLEASE. Because of this, receivers are having trouble getting open, and as a result the football is staying in the QB's hands longer, and they are taking more punishment then ever.
MY God, I don't know if I can continue to watch CFL offenses throw for 140-220 yards a game. It's not natural.

Wake up CFL.

Your 100% right kd4e. A while back I spoke with one of the Lion's receivers and he indicated to me that his was the #1 problem in the League accounting for the rather pathetic offenses we are seeing.
"the 1996 season was a very difficult period... I couldn't imagine telling people that I was part of the last days of the CFL... it seemed that there would be no end to the continuous stream of catastrophic problems... it was like living in a toxic fishbowl... if they had known how serious the situation was, but we couldn't make it public, for fear of a total meltdown". (from Bigger Balls, The CFL and Overcoming the Canadian Inferiority Complex, by Jeff Giles)

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notahomer
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Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:15 pm

I don't disagree but one thing BOTH leagues allow too much of, IMO, is the offensive stuff too. If the culture is going to change where defensive players need to be more 'hands off', it should apply to the recievers too. It maybe my imagination but I am seeing more offensive PI type calls made (and other forms of illegal contact by offensive players like blocking downfield) in both leagues but lots more could be called. IIRC, I saw three probable (these are DB's so probable is the word :wink: ) INTERCEPTIONS dropped due to mugging by a hard working (overthrown/underthrown) reciever. The reciever got credit for breaking it up every time......

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korey&dante4ever
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Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:23 pm

ballhawk wrote:Your 100% right kd4e. A while back I spoke with one of the Lion's receivers and he indicated to me that his was the #1 problem in the League accounting for the rather pathetic offenses we are seeing.
Good to hear
-Believes in building from the trenches outwards. A great O-Line and D-Line guarantees an above average team.
-A coach that has to give a motivational pregame speech is probably a coach that is insecure about his game plan.

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Toppy Vann
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Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:59 am

Another wake up. Teams like BC closing practices to the media. That is insane as that like tickets is life blood to a team.

DanoT
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Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:13 am

Toppy Vann wrote:Another wake up. Teams like BC closing practices to the media. That is insane as that like tickets is life blood to a team.
I think all or most of the teams do it to some extent.

Personally, I am thrilled to learn that the Lions are holding private practices. Does this mean that we might see some special secret never seen before plays designed to attack the opponents weaknesses?..... Nah, not likely. I must be day dreaming as the head :clown: isn't that innovative.

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Toppy Vann
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Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:06 pm

DanoT wrote:
Toppy Vann wrote:Another wake up. Teams like BC closing practices to the media. That is insane as that like tickets is life blood to a team.
I think all or most of the teams do it to some extent.

Personally, I am thrilled to learn that the Lions are holding private practices. Does this mean that we might see some special secret never seen before plays designed to attack the opponents weaknesses?..... Nah, not likely. I must be day dreaming as the head :clown: isn't that innovative.
Reporters and the media don't repeat the plays being run or schemes being tried. They are very astute that way so that is not the issue.

It's arrogance that you'd think would come from winning NOT losing and getting your butts handed to you.

More behaviour by a HC who is not that astute.

Yes the arrogant Chamblin barred their long time practice attending fans when he first started and this is what you'd expect from the NHL not the CFL.

If the media can't attend there are no stories No coverage and that is not good for long term media or fan relations. Where there is coverage it tends to be more critical as there are no players to talk to. I think this is also a move by Mike to stop the negative coverage as it is all pointing at him.

Last time I checked the Lions haven't sold out BC Place yet so there is a gap to be filled between a full house and where they are now with ticket giveaways.

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MexicoLionFan
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Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:04 pm

Great thoughts KD4, I agree 100%...thank you!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

Albert Einstein

TheLionKing
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Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:12 pm

DanoT wrote: Personally, I am thrilled to learn that the Lions are holding private practices. Does this mean that we might see some special secret never seen before plays designed to attack the opponents weaknesses?..... Nah, not likely. I must be day dreaming as the head :clown: isn't that innovative.
A screen play ? :wink:

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