Argos Bring in a Proven Running Back

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South Pender
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Ran across this on Pro Football Talk:

Steve Slaton joins the Toronto Argonauts
Posted by Josh Alper on April 24, 2014, 10:28 AM EDT

The CFL has popped up on our radar a few times in recent weeks.

Wide receiver Chad Ochocinco is trying to keep his professional football career going in Montreal and he may be catching passes from former Kansas State quarterback Collin Klein, who is trying to get his own pro career going after being ignored by the NFL last year. The Alouettes aren’t the only team adding familiar names to their roster, though.

The Edmonton Eskimos signed former West Virginia and Dolphins quarterback Pat White last month and now one of his former college teammates has also decided to try his luck in the land of poutine and Labatt’s.

The Toronto Argonauts have announced the signing of former Texans and Dolphins running back Steve Slaton. Slaton’s career started with a bang — 1,282 rushing yards and 10 total touchdowns as a rookie for the Texans in 2008, but lost his starting job the next year and it has been a while since we’ve seen Slaton on the field. He was let go by the Dolphins before the start of the 2012 season and wasn’t part of a team in 2013 either, leaving the 28-year-old with few options that didn’t include using his passport.

Slaton joins former Falcon Jerious Norwood in the backfield for the Argonauts.
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I remember some good performances from this guy when he was with the Texans. He had the one 1282-yard year, but was supplanted by Arian Foster who has gone on to be a great NFL back. He's had a decent NFL career, but has been pretty much inactive the last couple of years. We'll see how much he has left for the Argos. Not unlike Jerious Norwood, also with the Argos, who had some decent games for TO last season. With Chad Kackert still recovering from that devastating ankle injury and likely to be missing from the Argos lineup for at least some, and maybe much, of 2014, they will need help at RB.
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cromartie
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If by proven you mean 'proven to lose chances at maintaining starting jobs on NFL rosters', then yes, they've definitely brought in someone proven.

Otherwise, I'm not impressed.
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cromartie wrote:If by proven you mean 'proven to lose chances at maintaining starting jobs on NFL rosters', then yes, they've definitely brought in someone proven.

Otherwise, I'm not impressed.
By "proven," I meant someone who actually was a starter on an NFL team and had some success in that role (I'm thinking of his 1282-yard season). It's true Slaton lost his starting job, but it was to Arian Foster, a top RB in the NFL who is currently making $9M a year these days with the Texans. Slaton averaged 4.3 yds. a carry in his four years playing in the NFL--not significantly different from Foster's 4.5 average, and slightly higher than Marshawn Lynch's 4.2 yds/carry average over his time in the NFL. We often see players coming to Canada "with NFL experience," which turns out to be nothing more than membership on the PR of several teams, or hired and waived by one or more NFL teams without ever playing a down. Slaton was the real thing--an NFL starter--so I think the descriptor "proven" applies.

He hasn't been a factor on an NFL team for a while, but the guy does have the measurables (great speed: 4.45 in the 40); about Barry Sanders' size (a bit taller) at 5-9, 200 lbs.; and is only 28, so probably not past it quite yet for a running back. My description wasn't to suggest that he will be great in the CFL or even that he'll make the Argos, just that he has a legitimate NFL track record. Just to complete the thought, I wouldn't, for example, apply the term "proven" to John Beck.
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SP, Slaton's a player. He was always a little undersized for the NFL...he's not the Larry Key type build that can just pinball from hit to hit...he's a thinner build with breakaway speed from his great burst. IMO, I think he is perfectly suited for the CFL...also at West Virginia, he caught a ton of balls out of the backfield. So if his head is screwed on right, this could be a big signing for the Argos. Thanks for the update.
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KnowItAll
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is kackert out of the picture now???
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cromartie
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It's true Slaton lost his starting job, but it was to Arian Foster,an undrafted free agent with the Texans. Slaton averaged 4.3 yds. a carry in his years playing in the NFL--not significantly different from Foster's 4.5 average, and slightly higher than Marshawn Lynch's 4.2 yds/carry average over his time in the NFL. proving that I can compare a guy with one good season and less than 1/3rd of the carries of the two other guys and effectively compare apples to oranges .

We often see players coming to Canada "with NFL experience," which turns out to be nothing more than membership on the PR of several teams, or hired and waived by one or more NFL teams without ever playing a down. Slaton was the real thing--an NFL starter-- for one season, who suffered a significant injury and never saw significant playing time again, and who hasn't played a down on an NFL field since 2011 so I think the descriptor "proven" applies.
Fixed that for you.

He's finished. He hasn't been the "player" that you guys remember since 2009. He's spent two seasons out of football. Hasn't been an NFL starter since 2009. Washed out in Miami. Not sure how hard this is for you guys to understand. Take a flier on him if you want to, but don't pretend there's a lot of gas in the tank, or that he's "proven" anything. Screwed up his knee, neck and hamstring. Fumble prone. Wasn't even in a camp last year. Stop it.
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KnowItAll wrote:is kackert out of the picture now???
He's recovering from a really significant ankle injury last November and has experienced a relatively slow recovery. I read something about him recently indicating that he was able to put weight on the ankle now (this might have been a month ago), but that it was unlikely that he'd be ready for the start of the season, and maybe not until well into the season.
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cromartie wrote:
It's true Slaton lost his starting job, but it was to Arian Foster,an undrafted free agent with the Texans. Slaton averaged 4.3 yds. a carry in his years playing in the NFL--not significantly different from Foster's 4.5 average, and slightly higher than Marshawn Lynch's 4.2 yds/carry average over his time in the NFL. proving that I can compare a guy with one good season and less than 1/3rd of the carries of the two other guys and effectively compare apples to oranges .

We often see players coming to Canada "with NFL experience," which turns out to be nothing more than membership on the PR of several teams, or hired and waived by one or more NFL teams without ever playing a down. Slaton was the real thing--an NFL starter-- for one season, who suffered a significant injury and never saw significant playing time again, and who hasn't played a down on an NFL field since 2011 so I think the descriptor "proven" applies.
Fixed that for you.

He's finished. He hasn't been the "player" that you guys remember since 2009. He's spent two seasons out of football. Hasn't been an NFL starter since 2009. Washed out in Miami. Not sure how hard this is for you guys to understand. Take a flier on him if you want to, but don't pretend there's a lot of gas in the tank, or that he's "proven" anything. Screwed up his knee, neck and hamstring. Fumble prone. Wasn't even in a camp last year. Stop it.
Well, Cromartie, maybe it just comes down to differing word usage. Any RB who racks up 1282 yards playing a full season in the NFL is "proven" in my view. I'm aware of his fortunes since that time, and said in my earlier post that I wasn't suggesting "that he will be great in the CFL or even that he'll make the Argos." This, doesn't change the fact that he has proved himself in the NFL. That's all I was saying. Had I wanted to portray him as a sure star in the CFL, the subject title would have been: "Argos Bring in Dominant NFL Running Back." OK? Let's just leave it at that.
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The Argos are nothing if not consistent. Here is Adam Rita's scouting process:

Scene: Adam Rita's office. Present are Adam Rita and his scouting staff.

RITA: Do we have any hot prospects we might want to sign?

Scouts: Well, we have ten great players with tons of CFL experience that are still in their prime.

RITA: Anyone else?

Scouts: There's a couple of guys with a history of injuries that washed out of the NFL but haven't played in a couple of years.

RITA: Did you say NFL? Sign them and forget about everyone else.

Rita goes to his golf cart and drives to the parking lot where he leaves after putting in a 20 minute day.

/Scene
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Chad Kackert is proven in the CFL. He'll be the starting RB if healthy, regardless how good Slaton or J. Norwood look. The Argos saw how a premier NFL RB performed in his prime when Ricky Williams played that one season. He lacked the quickness to elude the first tackler (being accustomed to having a lead blocker). Williams had one of the lowest rushing averages of any starting CFL RB in recent memory. He also was a useless receiver and pass blocker (which coach Mathews said was more important for a CFL RB than rushing ability). So being All-NFL doesn't count for much in the CFL. :ref:
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JohnHenry wrote:Chad Kackert is proven in the CFL. He'll be the starting RB if healthy, regardless how good Slaton or J. Norwood look. The Argos saw how a premier NFL RB performed in his prime when Ricky Williams played that one season. He lacked the quickness to elude the first tackler (being accustomed to having a lead blocker). Williams had one of the lowest rushing averages of any starting CFL RB in recent memory. He also was a useless receiver and pass blocker (which coach Mathews said was more important for a CFL RB than rushing ability). So being All-NFL doesn't count for much in the CFL. :ref:
Well...looked at from another perspective, one could say that Ricky Williams' rushing average of 4.8 yards (in the 11 games he played for the Argos) is not really that low, and not significantly different in reality from Andrew Harris's 5.0 average last season. And we should keep in mind that this was his first (and only as it turned out) season with the Argos, so some acclimatization to the CFL, and its differences from the NFL, was necessary. And he did have 19 pass receptions in those 11 games, or an average of 1.73 receptions/game--compared with Chad Kackert's 1.69 receptions/game in the 16 games he's played for the Argos in 2012 and 2013. So in my view anyway, it really can't be said that Williams was a dud in his time in the CFL, nor does it follow that, had he been one, that we can now generalize to all former NFL players from this one example.

As just one NFL starter that I think would be terrific on a CFL field, consider Chris Johnson--he with the 4.26 40 speed. Don't you think he'd have a ball on the wide CFL field? Or maybe Adrian Peterson with the 4.4 40 speed. Kory Sheets had that kind of speed (4.47), and we all saw how speed kills in the CFL. Stefan Logan clocked a 4.43 in the NFL combine seven years ago, and we sure saw that speed here. Of course at nearly 33, some of that will be gone, but I digress....
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My point is that no team in the CFL has put a premium on NFL experience more than the Argos, almost to the point that if you have the words "NFL" on your resume, you will be given a shot by the Argos. This is despite the fact that it has been proven over and over again that just because you're in the NFL does not mean you will be successful in the CFL. Many NFL players encounter a rude awakening when trying to adjust to the game up here. Likewise, many CFL players that end up making it down in the NFL are often not star players but players who's size and skill set align better with the NFL game. Ricky Williams is more or less proof that the exchange rate between the NFL and the CFL is not as straightforward as some might think.
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Big Time wrote:...just because you're in the NFL does not mean you will be successful in the CFL.
No argument there. I'm not suggesting that. Nor was I really suggesting that Steve Slaton would be successful in the CFL. It just struck me as noteworthy that a guy who did have real success in the NFL was signed by a CFL team--noteworthy, not definitive proof of subsequent success.
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I hear ya, South Pender. I think your observations about Ricky Williams jive entirely with my own. I didn't think Ricky Williams was terrible, I didn't think he was great. With injuries, his performance was largely incomplete. He did have an impact on attendance, so that could be considered a win. I'm very curious to see how Chad Johnston does in Montreal. I suspect he's going to be very average as age and lack of recent playing experience will likely have taken its toll.
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South Pender wrote:
JohnHenry wrote:Chad Kackert is proven in the CFL. He'll be the starting RB if healthy, regardless how good Slaton or J. Norwood look. The Argos saw how a premier NFL RB performed in his prime when Ricky Williams played that one season. He lacked the quickness to elude the first tackler (being accustomed to having a lead blocker). Williams had one of the lowest rushing averages of any starting CFL RB in recent memory. He also was a useless receiver and pass blocker (which coach Mathews said was more important for a CFL RB than rushing ability). So being All-NFL doesn't count for much in the CFL. :ref:
Well...looked at from another perspective, one could say that Ricky Williams' rushing average of 4.8 yards (in the 11 games he played for the Argos) is not really that low, and not significantly different in reality from Andrew Harris's 5.0 average last season. And we should keep in mind that this was his first (and only as it turned out) season with the Argos, so some acclimatization to the CFL, and its differences from the NFL, was necessary. And he did have 19 pass receptions in those 11 games, or an average of 1.73 receptions/game--compared with Chad Kackert's 1.69 receptions/game in the 16 games he's played for the Argos in 2012 and 2013. So in my view anyway, it really can't be said that Williams was a dud in his time in the CFL, nor does it follow that, had he been one, that we can now generalize to all former NFL players from this one example.

As just one NFL starter that I think would be terrific on a CFL field, consider Chris Johnson--he with the 4.26 40 speed. Don't you think he'd have a ball on the wide CFL field? Or maybe Adrian Peterson with the 4.4 40 speed. Kory Sheets had that kind of speed (4.47), and we all saw how speed kills in the CFL. Stefan Logan clocked a 4.43 in the NFL combine seven years ago, and we sure saw that speed here. Of course at nearly 33, some of that will be gone, but I digress....
Speed can be an advantage but it's only part of the package. The Ticat's Chevon Walker posted back-to-back 4.25 & 4.26 - 40 yd times during tryouts, and matched Chris Williams in a training camp sprint competition. The Ticats found out Chevon was terrific running straight ahead but terrible when he had to turn his shoulders and could be tackled easily (Walker was recently signed by RedBlacks).

Conversely, there have been many All-Star RB's and Receivers in the CFL who've been very successful with only 4.6 or 4.7 speed. Sometimes the ability to avoid and/or break tackles is as important as raw sprinting speed (along with toughness, dedication, blocking ability, sure-hands, route running, ect).

By all accounts Ricky Williams was a terrific Argo teammate and blended well into his Toronto neighbourhood. There is little question he gave his all for the Argos and wasn't "dogging it" as some claim with respect to his CFL production. Williams was complimentary of the talent level in the CFL throughout his stay.

Last week, Chad Johnson said he was very impressed with the Alouettes talent level which was on par with the NFL.

The fact is I don't know of any "proven" NFL player who has come to the CFL and dominated right out of the box?
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