Right side of Oline

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

Qman
Champion
Posts: 932
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 12:59 pm
Location: Section 240

Go back to Johnson and Vallancourt; play on that side of the line has been brutal last two games
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Good move.
User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8174
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG when not at BC Place, Grey Cup or Mazatlan.

I think each and every one of them took a turn playing matador in Ottawa.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12580
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

I just watched the PVR of the game. I thought the O-line played well. The Lions ran the ball well all night, dominated time of possession, piled up 26 first downs and over 400 yards of offence. Lulay's two short-yardage TDs were both run to the right side of the O-line and Allen ran up the middle a 2-point convert. I thought some of the Ottawa sacks were on Jennings for either holding the ball too long or not stepping up in the pocket. Olafioye and O'Neill were each beaten once for sacks on the left side of the line and Adcock and Fabien were each beaten once on the right side.

I haven't yet brought myself to watch the PVR of last week's Calgary game. I particularly wanted to watch the fourth quarter when Vaillancourt and Steward played in place of Fabien and O'Neill. Wally said he initially thought the O-line struggled against Calgary but after watching the tape he put more of the blame on the QBs. Jennings is young and is trying hard in recent weeks not to throw interceptions, which means he is holding the ball longer. He'll be fine but teams have been trying to take away his first read and that can make the O-line look bad if the QB doesn't make quick decisions with the ball.
User avatar
DanoT
Hall of Famer
Posts: 4309
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:38 pm
Location: Victoria, B.C. in summer, Sun Peaks Resort in winter

B.C.FAN wrote:I just watched the PVR of the game. I thought the O-line played well. The Lions ran the ball well all night, dominated time of possession, piled up 26 first downs and over 400 yards of offence. Lulay's two short-yardage TDs were both run to the right side of the O-line and Allen ran up the middle a 2-point convert. I thought some of the Ottawa sacks were on Jennings for either holding the ball too long or not stepping up in the pocket. Olafioye and O'Neill were each beaten once for sacks on the left side of the line and Adcock and Fabien were each beaten once on the right side.

I haven't yet brought myself to watch the PVR of last week's Calgary game. I particularly wanted to watch the fourth quarter when Vaillancourt and Steward played in place of Fabien and O'Neill. Wally said he initially thought the O-line struggled against Calgary but after watching the tape he put more of the blame on the QBs. Jennings is young and is trying hard in recent weeks not to throw interceptions, which means he is holding the ball longer. He'll be fine but teams have been trying to take away his first read and that can make the O-line look bad if the QB doesn't make quick decisions with the ball.
On both of Lulay's TDs Olafioye lined up as a RT and threw a key block. I hope this doesn't turn into a short yardage "tendency" that other teams discover and defend against.
User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8174
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG when not at BC Place, Grey Cup or Mazatlan.

DanoT wrote:On both of Lulay's TDs Olafioye lined up as a RT and threw a key block. I hope this doesn't turn into a short yardage "tendency" that other teams discover and defend against.
I don't off hand recall what the tendencies are in terms of preferring to run one side or the other in short yardage but Olafioye has been switching to RT in those situations all season long.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
User avatar
pennw
Legend
Posts: 1921
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:50 am
Location: Chilliwack

DanoT wrote:
B.C.FAN wrote:I just watched the PVR of the game. I thought the O-line played well. The Lions ran the ball well all night, dominated time of possession, piled up 26 first downs and over 400 yards of offence. Lulay's two short-yardage TDs were both run to the right side of the O-line and Allen ran up the middle a 2-point convert. I thought some of the Ottawa sacks were on Jennings for either holding the ball too long or not stepping up in the pocket. Olafioye and O'Neill were each beaten once for sacks on the left side of the line and Adcock and Fabien were each beaten once on the right side.

I haven't yet brought myself to watch the PVR of last week's Calgary game. I particularly wanted to watch the fourth quarter when Vaillancourt and Steward played in place of Fabien and O'Neill. Wally said he initially thought the O-line struggled against Calgary but after watching the tape he put more of the blame on the QBs. Jennings is young and is trying hard in recent weeks not to throw interceptions, which means he is holding the ball longer. He'll be fine but teams have been trying to take away his first read and that can make the O-line look bad if the QB doesn't make quick decisions with the ball.
On both of Lulay's TDs Olafioye lined up as a RT and threw a key block. I hope this doesn't turn into a short yardage "tendency" that other teams discover and defend against.
I'm pretty sure other teams have noticed this as soon as they did it . Pro teams do study a lot more film than the average die-hard fan and I would be shocked if they did not know stuff that fans on a message board notice . Many pro coaches ,as well as players have made the statement that everyone knows what everyone else is doing . There isn't much that is original .
maxlion
Legend
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:49 am

B.C.FAN wrote:I just watched the PVR of the game. I thought the O-line played well. The Lions ran the ball well all night, dominated time of possession, piled up 26 first downs and over 400 yards of offence. Lulay's two short-yardage TDs were both run to the right side of the O-line and Allen ran up the middle a 2-point convert. I thought some of the Ottawa sacks were on Jennings for either holding the ball too long or not stepping up in the pocket. Olafioye and O'Neill were each beaten once for sacks on the left side of the line and Adcock and Fabien were each beaten once on the right side.

I haven't yet brought myself to watch the PVR of last week's Calgary game. I particularly wanted to watch the fourth quarter when Vaillancourt and Steward played in place of Fabien and O'Neill. Wally said he initially thought the O-line struggled against Calgary but after watching the tape he put more of the blame on the QBs. Jennings is young and is trying hard in recent weeks not to throw interceptions, which means he is holding the ball longer. He'll be fine but teams have been trying to take away his first read and that can make the O-line look bad if the QB doesn't make quick decisions with the ball.
Thanks for posting this. I agree that the Oline has been very good at opening up our run game. I posted in another thread that Steward got beat on one of the sacks, so after reading your post, I went back and watched each of the 6 sacks.

I felt that there was only 1 sack (the one that occured at 9:12 in the 2Q) where Jennings clearly held onto the ball too long and that was not a result of a missed or ineffective oline block. On the others Jennings may have had an opportunity to get a pass off, but there were also missed blocks that led to pressure and ultimately a sack.

Sack 1 - o'Neill missed
Sack 3 - Olafioye missdd
Sack 4 - Olafioye and Adcock missed
Sack 5 - Adcock missed
Sack 6 - Adcock missed

Perhap unfair to look only at sacks in judging the oline's play, but I'd say that missing three blocks that led directly to 3 sacks as in Adcock's case is inexcusable. And my apologies to Steward for unfairly maligning him!
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

I clearly saw Kirby Fabien missed a couple of blocks and then pushing the defensive linemen right into Jennings.
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

I felt that there was only 1 sack (the one that occured at 9:12 in the 2Q) where Jennings clearly held onto the ball too long and that was not a result of a missed or ineffective oline block. On the others Jennings may have had an opportunity to get a pass off, but there were also missed blocks that led to pressure and ultimately a sack.

Sack 1 - o'Neill missed
Sack 3 - Olafioye missdd
Sack 4 - Olafioye and Adcock missed
Sack 5 - Adcock missed
Sack 6 - Adcock missed

Perhap unfair to look only at sacks in judging the oline's play, but I'd say that missing three blocks that led directly to 3 sacks as in Adcock's case is inexcusable. And my apologies to Steward for unfairly maligning him!

maxlion


Thanks for researching this maxlion - insightful.

I focused a lot on Adcock's pass blocking last game and believed that he struggled. Your post confirms this.

I also believe that Steward was unfairly taken out of the starting lineup. I thought he was playing well overall. He missed a block on a Allen run and took a penalty that he shouldn't have in another game, but overall his play looked good to me...especially playing a new position.

A few comments on Hunter Steward
"Hunter is a big, athletic offensive lineman who has tremendous upside,” said GM Wally Buono.
Though Steward has only two years of college experience playing left tackle, he didn’t allow a sack during his career at Liberty.
We need him. Hunter has huge, huge potential to be a really good player. I think he can take his game to the next level. To win a Grey Cup, you have to have a great offensive line.” Jovan OlifoyeSteward is a massive offensive tackle. He is extremely tall with a large wing span. Often mauls and manhandles smaller defensive linemen. Powerful straight ahead run blocker that moves defenders off the line of scrimmage. ESPN
Kelly Bates, Lions running backs coach said the six-foot-seven Hunter Steward is a large offensive lineman who plays with a mean edge. He's mean and being aggressive. The footwork is there. We feel there is a lot of upside with him.”
Blocks with good lean, stays square, and keeps the defender in front of him. Quick, explosive, and easily anchors in pass protection. Works to keep his knees bent, fights with his hands, and seals opponents from the action. He offers terrific size and potential at right tackle or guard. Draft Insider

“It’s a good sign when you look at a big dude
like Hunter and figure he’s 300 pounds. Then he tells you he’s 330 pounds,” quarterback Travis Lulay says of the six-foot-seven tackle. He carries his weight really well. When you see him pull to make blocks, and do footwork drills, he’s not a slow, lumbering guy. He’s a pretty explosive, athletic player.”
Steward had six starts at left tackle under his belt and was getting mentions as a possible team rookie-of-the-year award winner when he was sidelined with his foot injury (The Province)
Shall we dance? The violent minuet in the trenches is where football games are won and lost — at the ground level. A re-configured Lions offensive line will see five-time CFL all-star Jovan Olafioye move to left tackle, Hunter Steward, normally a tackle, at left guard, with first-year centre Cody Husband and rookie right guard Charles Vaillancourt being asked to mature quickly. It could turn out to be one of the biggest and most ruthless O-line’s in the CFL. Mike Beamish
Massive Offensive Line Looks to Go on the Offensive. The player facing the greatest adjustment is Hunter Steward — the team’s first-round draft pick in 2013. Steward is every inch a prototypical left tackle — the position he played when the Lions drafted him from Liberty University and their starting LT in training camp last year — before he broke his foot on the second day of camp.

“How are we going to get bigger?” asks head coach Wally Buono. “We want to be more physical. We’re worried about 2016. We’re not worried about next year.”Some feel that Steward eventually will return to his natural position. In the meantime, it’s no piece of cake, learning a new position, but he has Dorazio there to help him.

“It’s something different, something new,” Steward said. “I’ve never played guard before. You just have to embrace it. I’ve been in Surrey (practice facility) the whole winter, learning from Dan. At first, I was a little apprehensive. But, in the grand scheme of things, it adds to my value, to be able to play another position.” The Province
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

maxlion wrote:
Thanks for posting this. I agree that the Oline has been very good at opening up our run game. I posted in another thread that Steward got beat on one of the sacks, so after reading your post, I went back and watched each of the 6 sacks.

I felt that there was only 1 sack (the one that occured at 9:12 in the 2Q) where Jennings clearly held onto the ball too long and that was not a result of a missed or ineffective oline block. On the others Jennings may have had an opportunity to get a pass off, but there were also missed blocks that led to pressure and ultimately a sack.

Sack 1 - o'Neill missed
Sack 3 - Olafioye missdd
Sack 4 - Olafioye and Adcock missed
Sack 5 - Adcock missed
Sack 6 - Adcock missed

Perhap unfair to look only at sacks in judging the oline's play, but I'd say that missing three blocks that led directly to 3 sacks as in Adcock's case is inexcusable. And my apologies to Steward for unfairly maligning him!
Thanks for the work, max. We all share a strong interest in the play of our team. Film really helps. :thup: Ah bin bizy, so to speak. No film work from me. But the kind of film checking you did is essential to our understanding. It is all there on film, if we get to check it.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
maxlion
Legend
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:49 am

Thanks for the comments WCJ!

Curiosity got the best of me, so I decided to review these sacks one more time. There were of course lots of other plays where Jennings was pressured early or assignments missed, so it’s not entirely fair to only look at the sacks. But 6 sacks does give quite a bit of material to look at. In my opinion, Adcock and Olafioye come out not looking so good. I don’t see Fabien missing any of his blocks.

For those who may not know, these games are all up on youtube, so the first time indication in my notes below is from the time on the youtube video in case anyone wants to look up these plays.

26:01 (Q2 13:02) J. JENNINGS Sacked by Z. EVANS (9 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-9 yds)


Evans breaks through to left of Jennings, past 66 O’Neill. Adcock’s block comes in late as well. No chance for Jennings.

31:28 (Q2 09:12) J. JENNINGS Sacked by E. LATTANZIO (5 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-5 yds)


Jennings fakes hand off, pump fakes, then linebackers run in. Fabien loses his block, but it’s academic at this point as the pocket is chaos.

48:52 (Q2 02:31) J. JENNINGS Sacked by J. BOYETT (9 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-9 yds)

Olafioye seems confused and fails to pick up the player coming off the edge who sacks Jennings immediately. No chance for Jennings.

1:02:55 (Q3 11:22) J. JENNINGS Sacked by E. LATTANZIO (20 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-20 yds), Penalty: Holding called on BC (L. ADCOCK) Declined

This is a critical play as we are trailing by 3 and are 2nd and goal from the 5. Ottawa sends 3, both 63 Olafioye and 65 Adcock’s blocks run straight through them, Jennings runs for his life and loses 20 yards. Adcock manages to pick up a holding penalty as well. Leone then predictably misses the field goal.

1:31:14: (Q4 09:06) J. JENNINGS Sacked by J. BOYETT (9 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-9 yds), PLAY REVIEWED (Coach): Overturned, Penalty: Roughing the Passer called on Ottawa (C. WILLIAMS) (15 yds.) - No Play, BC challenged for Roughing the Passer.

Another big play that ended up changing the course of the game in an unexpected way. Allen picks up the blitz. 65 Adcock misses his block who grabs onto Jennings. Jennings tries to escape but is tackled by 2 other RBs

1:34:50 (Q4 07:44) J. JENNINGS Sacked by J. BOYETT (12 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-12 yds)


Ottawa blitzes. This one I would say is more about scheme. We had no one to pick up the blitz and Jennings had no outlet to throw to.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

maxlion wrote:Thanks for the comments WCJ!

...

1:34:50 (Q4 07:44) J. JENNINGS Sacked by J. BOYETT (12 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-12 yds)[/b]

Ottawa blitzes. This one I would say is more about scheme. We had no one to pick up the blitz and Jennings had no outlet to throw to.
You are welcome, max. Great breakdown on the film. I made time to watch a couple of them on YouTube.

Just one comment on one missed block. No blitz pickup. No outlet. In some organizations that would be intolerable. Throw your QB to the wolves, why don't you? IMO, in the CFL, for the OL, starting with the staff, Job 1 --> Protect the QB. Scheme it. Block it. Keep it as simple as one can. Some teams achieve this. Job 2 --> Run block. Build the skills. Again, keep it as simple as possible. Our run blocking is better than our pass blocking. Make as few personnel changes as possible.

Wishful thinking, I know.

(A further personnel change is wandering across my mind, but I will keep it to myself at this time. I would be both kind of shocked if it happened, but also not completely surprised.)

OK, no more OL comments from me for another little while. But I admit it is kind of hard to stay out of it when others are talking about the OL.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12580
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

maxlion wrote:Curiosity got the best of me, so I decided to review these sacks one more time. There were of course lots of other plays where Jennings was pressured early or assignments missed, so it’s not entirely fair to only look at the sacks. But 6 sacks does give quite a bit of material to look at. In my opinion, Adcock and Olafioye come out not looking so good. I don’t see Fabien missing any of his blocks.

For those who may not know, these games are all up on youtube, so the first time indication in my notes below is from the time on the youtube video in case anyone wants to look up these plays.


Thanks for mentioning YouTube. Much easier than rewinding the PVR. Here's the YouTube link:


I think you missed the first sack of the game and counted one that was nullified by penalty, so your numbers don't align. There were four sacks in the first half and two in the second.

19:54 (Q1 02:18) J. JENNINGS Sacked by C. WILLIAMS (4 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-4 yds)

Jennings can't find anyone open and tries to run to the left. Adcock's man comes all the way around and gets him from behind before he reaches the line of scrimmage. I'd put that one on Jennings for holding the ball (or call it a coverage sack if you prefer).

26:01 (Q2 13:02) J. JENNINGS Sacked by Z. EVANS (9 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-9 yds)

Evans breaks through to left of Jennings, past 66 O’Neill. Adcock’s block comes in late as well. No chance for Jennings.
Agreed.

31:28 (Q2 09:12) J. JENNINGS Sacked by E. LATTANZIO (5 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-5 yds)


Jennings fakes hand off, pump fakes, then linebackers run in. Fabien loses his block, but it’s academic at this point as the pocket is chaos.
Jennings had lots of time on this one. When his first read wasn't open after the pump fake, he held the ball too long and was sacked after about four seconds.

48:52 (Q2 02:31) J. JENNINGS Sacked by J. BOYETT (9 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-9 yds)


Olafioye seems confused and fails to pick up the player coming off the edge who sacks Jennings immediately. No chance for Jennings.
Yes. Olafioye had a tough assignment to pick up the blitzing linebacker off the edge but he didn't get there in time.
1:02:55 (Q3 11:22) J. JENNINGS Sacked by E. LATTANZIO (20 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-20 yds), Penalty: Holding called on BC (L. ADCOCK) Declined

This is a critical play as we are trailing by 3 and are 2nd and goal from the 5. Ottawa sends 3, both 63 Olafioye and 65 Adcock’s blocks run straight through them, Jennings runs for his life and loses 20 yards. Adcock manages to pick up a holding penalty as well. Leone then predictably misses the field goal.
With a three-man rush, Jennings should have stepped up in the pocket and let the ends go by. Instead he retreated to the right, into the path of Adcock's man. Adcock took the holding penalty when he saw Jennings retreating toward his man. There is no need for Jennings to take a deep drop from the 5-yard line and no need to escape to the right. Get rid of the ball.
1:31:14: (Q4 09:06) J. JENNINGS Sacked by J. BOYETT (9 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-9 yds), PLAY REVIEWED (Coach): Overturned, Penalty: Roughing the Passer called on Ottawa (C. WILLIAMS) (15 yds.) - No Play, BC challenged for Roughing the Passer.

Another big play that ended up changing the course of the game in an unexpected way. Allen picks up the blitz. 65 Adcock misses his block who grabs onto Jennings. Jennings tries to escape but is tackled by 2 other RBs


This play and sack didn't count because of the roughing the passer penalty on Ottawa.

1:34:50 (Q4 07:44) J. JENNINGS Sacked by J. BOYETT (12 yds), J. JENNINGS Team Loss (-12 yds)

Ottawa blitzes. This one I would say is more about scheme. We had no one to pick up the blitz and Jennings had no outlet to throw to.
This was a tough one. Allen stepped up to take the inside man on the blitz, as he should have, but that left Adcock to block two outside guys. All three of them got to Jennings in the end. Jennings didn't have a lot of time but I saw the blitz coming and was yelling at the TV for Jennings to get rid of the ball. He held it, and the resulting sack took the Lions out of FG position in a one-point game.

We can see the same plays differently and apportion blame to linemen, RBs, QBs or coaches. There is often more than one breakdown when a play goes bad.
User avatar
SammyGreene
Team Captain
Posts: 8079
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:52 am

Photo from today's practice. Steward and Valliancourt back as starters or just getting work in with first unit? Fingers crossed.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Post Reply