Annnnnd......of course, the Canucks pick.....

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Sir Purrcival
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Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:59 pm

5th.

Talk about snake bit. 2nd best chance to pick number 1 over all and we pick 5th yet again. I don't think you could have a team that has worse luck in the draft. Not once in it's entire history, has this team picked #1 overall. We have had #2 picks, #3 picks, #4 picks, many of whom went on to become, well nobody.

2nd year in a row, we have dropped several draft places in this crappy system. New Jersey hasn't had a #1 since they were the Colorado Rockies so they at least haven't been spoiled recently but they go from 5th to 1st and Philli goes from a whopping 13th to second. Dallas 8th to 3rd and Colorado from 1st to 4th. I don't know who came up with this system but it sucks. How do they expect the worst teams to get better if they are getting shoved down the draft list by random chance. New Jersey, Philli, Dallas, Colorado, all former Stanley Cup winners. I know it's seldom that one player can turn a team around but seems to be working for Edmonton, the Leafs and the Pens. Would be nice just once to have that opportunity.
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WestCoastJoe
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Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:05 pm

True that. The system sucks.

And the Canucks suck.

And the Canucks are snake bitten.

But Vancouver did win the Stanley Cup. 1915. Millionaires. I will take it.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

TheLionKing
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Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:41 pm

Canucks are cursed.

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Sir Purrcival
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Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:33 pm

WestCoastJoe wrote:True that. The system sucks.

And the Canucks suck.

And the Canucks are snake bitten.

But Vancouver did win the Stanley Cup. 1915. Millionaires. I will take it.
102 years and counting. That is a long time between championships. Makes the Red Sox look like chumps and no.w that the Cubs are off the list, we must be vying for the number 1 spot overall.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.

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Coast Mountain Lion
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Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:26 pm

Sir Purrcival wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:True that. The system sucks.

And the Canucks suck.

And the Canucks are snake bitten.

But Vancouver did win the Stanley Cup. 1915. Millionaires. I will take it.
102 years and counting. That is a long time between championships. Makes the Red Sox look like chumps and no.w that the Cubs are off the list, we must be vying for the number 1 spot overall.
Keeping in mind that Vancouver had no team, or at least no team eligible to compete for the Stanley Cup, for over half a century. So the current futility record only stands since 1970, three years after the Leafs last won a cup. Oh, and another team joined the league the same time as the Canucks - remind me how many cups they've won?

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Sir Purrcival
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Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:14 pm

So your point is that other teams are equally inept? No argument there. Please don't tell me you are expecting bitterness to be factually accurate. :roar: It is still 102 years since the last Stanley Cup Championship in this city.
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Hambone
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Tue May 02, 2017 9:25 am

WestCoastJoe wrote:But Vancouver did win the Stanley Cup. 1915. Millionaires. I will take it.
Did you get good seats for that one WCJ? :tease:
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Hambone
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Tue May 02, 2017 10:21 am

Sir Purrcival wrote:5th.

Talk about snake bit. 2nd best chance to pick number 1 over all and we pick 5th yet again. I don't think you could have a team that has worse luck in the draft. Not once in it's entire history, has this team picked #1 overall. We have had #2 picks, #3 picks, #4 picks, many of whom went on to become, well nobody.

2nd year in a row, we have dropped several draft places in this crappy system. New Jersey hasn't had a #1 since they were the Colorado Rockies so they at least haven't been spoiled recently but they go from 5th to 1st and Philli goes from a whopping 13th to second. Dallas 8th to 3rd and Colorado from 1st to 4th. I don't know who came up with this system but it sucks. How do they expect the worst teams to get better if they are getting shoved down the draft list by random chance. New Jersey, Philli, Dallas, Colorado, all former Stanley Cup winners. I know it's seldom that one player can turn a team around but seems to be working for Edmonton, the Leafs and the Pens. Would be nice just once to have that opportunity.
It's an imperfect lottery system but then again it's an imperfect system that determines which teams wind up where in the initial pecking order. It's easy to make a case that teams who just miss the playoffs are much better than the bottom 3 or 4 but there really isn't much difference between 2nd worst (i.e. Canucks) and 8th worst. Vancouver finished 29th a whopping 21 points better than Colorado but only 12 behind #23 Florida. 12 points basically means once a month Florida happened to pick up a win while the Canucks lost. Last year only 13 points separated 21st from 30th.

With loser points, shootout wins and now 3 on 3 OT wins final standings don't automatically reflect who is truly more "in need" than the next guy like it once did when the only way to get points in the standings was to win or tie in regulation. ROWs have become a measure for standings tiebreakers. In that regard the Canucks won more games in regulation and OT than did 3 teams who finished ahead of them in the standings; NJ, Arizona and Detroit.

My point is that in most years most of the teams in the bottom 1/3 are equally bad and equally in need of the best talent. So should the system be weighted in a manner where the 2nd worst team has significantly better chances of getting top pick than the 3rd worst team and should the 3rd worst have significantly better chances than the 4th worst and so on? Or should the chances from one spot to the other be marginally better as the current system allows?
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WestCoastJoe
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Tue May 02, 2017 11:19 am

Hambone wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:But Vancouver did win the Stanley Cup. 1915. Millionaires. I will take it.
Did you get good seats for that one WCJ? :tease:
Oh yeah, Hambone. Denman Arena. Ha ha

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denman_Arena
Denman Arena was an indoor arena located in downtown Vancouver, British Columbia. The arena was located at 1805 West Georgia Street at the northwest corner with Denman Street. It opened in December 1911 and was destroyed by fire in 1936. Its primary use was for ice sports such as ice hockey. It was the home ice rink of the Vancouver Millionaires professional ice hockey team, and was the location of several Stanley Cup championships. The arena was also used for other sports, musical performances and public assemblies. It was an assembly point for Canadian servicemen during World War I. The 10,500 seat arena was the largest in Canada at the time, and introduced mechanically frozen or "artificial" ice to Canada.[2]
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

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Hambone
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Tue May 02, 2017 3:06 pm

WestCoastJoe wrote:
Hambone wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:But Vancouver did win the Stanley Cup. 1915. Millionaires. I will take it.
Did you get good seats for that one WCJ? :tease:
Oh yeah, Hambone. Denman Arena. Ha ha

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denman_Arena
Denman Arena was an indoor arena located in downtown Vancouver, British Columbia. The arena was located at 1805 West Georgia Street at the northwest corner with Denman Street. It opened in December 1911 and was destroyed by fire in 1936. Its primary use was for ice sports such as ice hockey. It was the home ice rink of the Vancouver Millionaires professional ice hockey team, and was the location of several Stanley Cup championships. The arena was also used for other sports, musical performances and public assemblies. It was an assembly point for Canadian servicemen during World War I. The 10,500 seat arena was the largest in Canada at the time, and introduced mechanically frozen or "artificial" ice to Canada.[2]
Just look at how steep the pitch is for the seats in the upper deck. Fans were literally right on top of the action.

For the record the last BC team to win Lord Stanley's goblet was the 1925 Victoria Cougars. The Pacific Coast League as it was known then would fold after the 1925-26 season. Most of the contracts of the Cougar players were purchased by the new NHL franchise starting up Detroit for the 1926-27 season. That new team decided to call themselves the Detroit Cougars. After 4 years they renamed themselves Falcons. In 1932 they would become the Red Wings when James Norris bought the club and decided the Winged Wheelers logo from the old Montreal Amateur Athletic Association he'd been a member of would be purrfect for a Motor City club.
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Sir Purrcival
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Thu May 04, 2017 1:14 am

Hambone wrote:
Sir Purrcival wrote:5th.

Talk about snake bit. 2nd best chance to pick number 1 over all and we pick 5th yet again. I don't think you could have a team that has worse luck in the draft. Not once in it's entire history, has this team picked #1 overall. We have had #2 picks, #3 picks, #4 picks, many of whom went on to become, well nobody.

2nd year in a row, we have dropped several draft places in this crappy system. New Jersey hasn't had a #1 since they were the Colorado Rockies so they at least haven't been spoiled recently but they go from 5th to 1st and Philli goes from a whopping 13th to second. Dallas 8th to 3rd and Colorado from 1st to 4th. I don't know who came up with this system but it sucks. How do they expect the worst teams to get better if they are getting shoved down the draft list by random chance. New Jersey, Philli, Dallas, Colorado, all former Stanley Cup winners. I know it's seldom that one player can turn a team around but seems to be working for Edmonton, the Leafs and the Pens. Would be nice just once to have that opportunity.
It's an imperfect lottery system but then again it's an imperfect system that determines which teams wind up where in the initial pecking order. It's easy to make a case that teams who just miss the playoffs are much better than the bottom 3 or 4 but there really isn't much difference between 2nd worst (i.e. Canucks) and 8th worst. Vancouver finished 29th a whopping 21 points better than Colorado but only 12 behind #23 Florida. 12 points basically means once a month Florida happened to pick up a win while the Canucks lost. Last year only 13 points separated 21st from 30th.

With loser points, shootout wins and now 3 on 3 OT wins final standings don't automatically reflect who is truly more "in need" than the next guy like it once did when the only way to get points in the standings was to win or tie in regulation. ROWs have become a measure for standings tiebreakers. In that regard the Canucks won more games in regulation and OT than did 3 teams who finished ahead of them in the standings; NJ, Arizona and Detroit.

My point is that in most years most of the teams in the bottom 1/3 are equally bad and equally in need of the best talent. So should the system be weighted in a manner where the 2nd worst team has significantly better chances of getting top pick than the 3rd worst team and should the 3rd worst have significantly better chances than the 4th worst and so on? Or should the chances from one spot to the other be marginally better as the current system allows?
You make some good points. I think what I would do with this is keep the lottery system but restrict it to the bottom 5 teams. Worst team, 3 chances, 2nd worst, 2 chances the rest 1 each. Beyond that, the rest go in order of their record. I would also make it so that the team that picked #1 the preceding year could not pick higher than #2 the following year. No more of the Edmonton, parade of #1 picks thank you very much. As for the ROW, issue. This isn't a tiebreak situation for the most part. If one team gets 67 points in a season and the next team gets 68, it doesn't really matter how they got them. Every team has strength's and weaknesses. One team may well be superior in 4 on 4 while another may have 2 or 3 shootout specialists. In the end, the points all count and the teams are all playing under the same system. You could easily over think this whole thing which is what I think they have done in some lame attempt to generate excitement about the draft process and to deal with teams that "throw the end of the season" in order to get a better pick. The latter still happens but now it isn't a guarantee. The cost however is the kick in the teeth to teams that had brutal seasons and desperately could use some exciting news to help them generate interest for the following season. They often end up getting displaced several draft spaces because of this system. It ends up being very discouraging when you see teams that had better seasons swoop in and pick before your team. In my mind, there is no way a team that was in the top 20 should be drafting 2nd.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.

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